Charlie Perdue: You either have a
business, you know, you're an owner
user, um, like yourself mm-hmm.
Where you've got a business that's
gonna backfill this, this building
that can support the debt service.
Um, or you are, you are an investor
who's got enough money that they
can put toward an asset that if
things go wrong, it's not, they've
now gone beyond the stock market.
Chris Arrington: Hey, you're
making an investment, dude.
We're not, this isn't play money.
Yeah.
How do you keep people from
maybe making a mistake?
Or, or, or is that even part of your job?
Charlie Perdue: Well, I think when
you get to kind of the commercial
real estate level, you know, that, um.
You've got some discretionary money
Chase Arrington: at that point.
From sunrise commutes to stormy
nights, from tough builds to big ideas.
We're shaping the future of North Texas.
One story at a time.
Welcome to Building Dallas.
Chris Arrington: Welcome
back to Building Dallas.
The show that spotlights the
people, projects, and perspectives
that are shaping North Texas
one property at a time.
Today's guest is someone who knows the
heartbeat of this city better than most.
Charlie Purdue is the founder of
Purdue Realty Corporation, a locally
owned commercial real estate firm
that's been helping small business
owners, developers, and investors.
Uncover off market gyms across
Dallas for nearly two decades.
Charlie, actually, I got to know Charlie
through a really good friend of mine,
Dave Spence, who owns a lot of property
and Charlie's been working with David
on, uh, on a bunch of buildings and I was
having a hard time with a neighbor at the
commercial building that I was renting.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Bishop over on Bishop.
Yeah.
And I called Charlie, I
said, Charlie, man, I just.
I gotta move and it's time.
It was just the perfect timing.
So find me a building.
So we went down here and, you
know, on commerce, 'cause I live
in Kesser Park with Charlie.
And, uh, we found this
building that was Gail's great.
I loved it.
We made an offer.
It was like first day on the market.
We made an offer and they said,
they kind of verbally said okay.
And then after the weekend they came
back and I think the wife said, oh no,
we want a hundred thousand dollars more.
And we're like, I go, wait.
I just kind of, that kind of made me mad.
Yeah.
So I'm like, well no, but they
just thought it's too easy.
Right.
Well, it, it's not that easy.
It just, it was one of those
It's a time it, it happens.
Charlie Perdue: It does.
Yeah.
Um.
I, there's so many variables.
I mean, it just, it, it's all different,
you know, the biggest variable being
the seller and the buyer, you know, you
just, you just don't know the emotions
that are tied to these properties.
And they didn't have representation.
So, you know, we went
after it pretty quickly.
And you, they, they
didn't, I don't think so.
Are we talking about the West Thomas?
That very first one?
Yeah.
Where with the landscape.
Right, right, right.
Yeah.
No, it was just, uh, I
think his name was Sean.
He still owns it.
Yeah.
And, uh, no, he, he didn't have any
representation, uh, which is not uncommon.
Uh, but he, uh.
Uh, you know, I think, I think because
we wanted it, he wanted it, you know,
Chris Arrington: and, uh, oh my gosh.
It's like you have a garage sale and
someone goes right for that item and
you go, oh, no, I don't wanna sell that.
Well, it's, it's no, yeah.
Sell it.
Charlie Perdue: It's childlike.
Right.
You know, it's like when you, when
you don't want something to play
with and someone else says, well,
I'll play with it, the little kid.
And the little kid starts playing
with it and the other kid goes.
I want that back.
Yeah.
Chris Arrington: Yeah.
Charlie Perdue: It's, it's
kind of the same, yeah.
Childlike behavior.
Chris Arrington: So, so I'm, so Charlie's
been through this a lot of times.
I'm, I'm just like going,
oh man, I'm in a hurry.
I've, you know, I'm kinda crushed follow,
like, gosh, it's right close to the house.
They're not gonna be anything else.
So then we actually looked kind
of over in, in the Regal Row area,
looked at a building over there.
That one didn't work.
I think we ended up being the
guys to push the guys in the lead.
Someone else had an offer we,
and made an offer behind it.
It, and then they bought
it or something like that.
And then there was another, another
building over here off of Inwood in
that little, that little area right
between, uh, the river and Stemmons.
Mm-hmm.
We looked at a building over there
and I think that the same thing.
It's like, uh, someone else bought it.
Okay.
So then this is what I love.
Charlie calls me and goes, okay, Chris.
I drove by this bu, this building,
we drove by this building and
it's not for selling anything.
I, I walked in, I found the owner, and I
asked him if he'd wanna sell the building.
He said no.
So I'm thinking, come on, why
are you telling me this story?
And, but I said, Hey, if you'll, you
know, if you'll bring the guy over here
and he really wants to buy it because
you said, I, I really wanna buy it.
And I'm like, yeah, and we can make a
deal fine, but if it's gonna be a lot of
mess around stuff, I don't wanna do it.
We came over here and bought the building.
Charlie Perdue: Well, we were
primed and ready to go, you know,
and maybe God was getting us to
a position to be able to do that.
And that's exactly what happened.
Yeah.
And this couldn't, and then
he regretted the sale, you
know, after that it was, yeah.
If I remember correctly, he, he
sold it and then he was like, gosh,
I wish I still had that building.
Yeah.
And I've asked him about this
Chris Arrington: one back here,
and he won't sell, he still
occupies the, won't sell the
Charlie Perdue: adjacent building.
Right.
Chris Arrington: But this,
this bu and it's been perfect.
And I just thought, I just, I've
loved telling that story because
it, it wasn't even for sale.
I think you even, you even
said, Chris, this building just
looks like the one for you.
And I'm like, yeah, I don't know
what that looks like, but, and
it's been, it's been awesome.
I'm a mile from the house
and it's served our needs.
We're we're still nesting in it now.
I was just, I was just showing
Charlie we're redoing a little room
up here in the, in the front of
the building where we'd come in.
So, so, but Charlie, I tell me, that's
my story with Charlie that I, I just
love and he is really, you know,
made a big difference in my business.
I want you to, I wanna start
out with you telling people.
How, how did you get started here?
I mean, did you grow up in Dallas?
Is it, is there I did.
Charlie Perdue: I I was born
in Kansas City, Missouri.
Uh, my dad was a lifelong banker
and he got an opportunity to
work for Inter First, inter
first Bank, I believe in 1983.
Um, and so we moved from Jeff
City, Missouri to Dallas.
That's how we ended up here.
Um, grew up in North Dallas,
uh, far north Dallas.
So like BeltLine, Hillcrest area.
Chris Arrington: Mm-hmm.
Charlie Perdue: And, uh, and then
went to Richardson High School,
um, and then Texas Tech, um, wreck
Rackum and came back here, uh, and
did some just kind of various things.
Um.
But then I graduated in 2000 from
Texas Tech, and then, um, in 2003, I,
I pretty much had enough of, I did some
advertising, marketing type of stuff,
but I, I was working real hard, but
I wasn't making a whole lot of money.
And the money I was making, I was
spending, um, and so, which is, you know,
on me, but I just had a conversation
with my dad and I just said, Hey,
how can, how can I, uh, what can I do
that is, what can I do to make money?
That's in proportion of my efforts
that I put into it, you know?
And he said, well, you can sell
commercial real estate or jets.
And uh, and we had, we had a family
friend that, that was a pilot
and sold jets and he kind of, uh.
He recruited all his salespeople from ge.
That was, they went through this
GE school and they were top-notch,
sophisticated salespeople.
And so I was like, well,
I'm not gonna do that.
Um, so I guess I'll do
commercial real estate.
And he hooked me up with a good
friend of his, one of his best
friends, Alan Edmondson, who, um,
who ran the business development
side for Fidelity National title.
And so I went and talked to him and
he said, lemme put you in touch with a
friend of mine, Jeff, over at Duke Realty.
You should get in the industrial business.
And I went and talked to him
and he said, can't help you.
Why don't you go talk to George Ter
and Mark Miller over at Robert Lin
Company, which is now N AI Robert Lin.
And he goes, they've got the best.
Training program in the business,
in commercial real estate,
if, if you can get a spot.
So I went in there, we interviewed several
times and they said, look, we don't have
any industrial positions, but we do have
an office division that we're starting.
Do you want to be a part of that?
And I, you know, at that point I was
like, whatever you can give me, I'll take.
So, um, that's what I did.
I started there in 2003 and then, um,
Bob Lin, who started the company, the
founder was still alive at that point.
He came up with like Trammell
Crow and those guys, and he
was super big on geographical,
uh, focus, the specialization.
He would divide Dallas up into all
these different submarkets, you
know, like Oak Lawn North, you know,
uh, uptown, downtown, all that.
And so he would, he would tell
you, pick your, pick your market
and eat, breathe and sleep.
That market.
Um, and so in order to become
an expert, you know, you want to
know everything about that market.
Chris Arrington: Yeah.
Charlie Perdue: Um, so I decided that
I'd pick Central Business District
downtown Dallas and, you know, just
being ignorant, uh, uh, just not knowing
what my competition would look like,
not, which is ignorance is bliss.
Yeah.
Which I truly believe.
Yeah.
And it really is sometimes.
Yeah.
It just goes, I mean, it really is.
Jump in.
It is.
Absolutely.
Um, and so I did and I went in
there hungry and, uh, you know,
walked every floor of every
building in downtown Dallas.
Uh, I still remember a lot of
the addresses and the building's
names and all that kind of stuff.
And, you know, you got your suit on and
you're schlepping your, your flyers and
everything about you and you're sweating
and trying to dry off in the bathrooms.
And then you're also dodging
the security guards who were
trying to get people that are.
Trying to solicit their
business outta the building.
Outta the building.
Chris Arrington: Oh my gosh.
Charlie Perdue: So there's
all these kind of legendary
stories about that with brokers.
But so anyways, that's what I stacked
those buildings, uh, went after all the
tenants to do tenant representation.
So I did what's called
tenant representation.
Um, and uh, I did that for three
years and I felt like I knew what
I needed to know and I'd always
wanted to start, uh, a business for
myself being business for myself.
And so I decided in 2003 that
I would leave Robert Lynn
Company and just do my own thing
Chris Arrington: mm-hmm.
Charlie Perdue: With my platform.
Yeah.
Which was unimpressive.
Chris Arrington: Yeah.
Charlie Perdue: Um, and I figured, look,
all these companies are buying into me.
And what I have to offer, not my platform.
And it was, it was not, not the case.
So anyways, I left in 2003, just kind of
really tried to figure out what to do.
I thought I would get into
development, but had no money.
Um, I thought I would do
certain things, money,
Chris Arrington: intense business,
Charlie Perdue: build the suits,
all these different things.
And so I went back to doing tenant
representation and by that time I
had, I had gained some insecurities.
I was on my own.
I didn't have a platform.
It was just me.
And I was going and pitching.
When you say platform, meaning
a company behind me that's
bigger, bigger than me, it's
Chris Arrington: got some
name to it, Henry S. Miller.
Something like, okay.
It'd be like
Charlie Perdue: Chase going out
and starting a roofing company
leaving Arrington Roofing.
Yeah.
And going, Hey, I'm just as
good as Arrington Roofing.
And then go, well, we know Arrington
Roofing, it's an established, you know.
Commercial real estate brokerage platform.
Mm-hmm.
And, you know, so that, that
was, that was my insecurity.
I was like, okay, now I'm
going up against the XYZs.
And they are, they've got four
or five people on their team.
And so it just kind of created
a lot of anxiety for me.
Um, and, uh, so I, I, you know, I made
do, um, and got by and, and did fine.
Uh, but it wasn't until about 2009 when
my dad's secretary at the time, uh, called
me and said, Hey Charlie, I've got this
friend of mine, she's a lawyer and she
needs some help with some office space.
Can you help her?
And I said like, oh, sure.
Where's she at?
And she goes, well, she's in Oak Cliff.
And I was like, Ugh, I don't do
anything outside of downtown Dallas.
I had been so focused and I'm,
I'm really good at, uh, I'm, I'm
very disciplined in that regard.
If there's something I need to
do, I'm very disciplined about
staying within those boundaries.
Yeah.
And so it was just uncomfortable.
I was just like, oh gosh.
But since it was my
dad's secretary, I Yeah.
Took it very seriously.
Really?
Yeah.
Went down there, really client, so
I got the address, went down there
and it happened to be at Route
80 Studio, which happens to be
one of David Spencer's buildings.
Chris Arrington: Oh yeah.
Charlie Perdue: Um, but I didn't know
at the time, didn't know who he was.
Um, but I pulled up.
I kind of went through Bishop, you know,
past the hospital, took a ride on Davis,
Saul Route eighties, was impressed
with the building right away, just as
somebody that, you know, constantly
looks at real estate and parked there.
Went in, met her.
She's Atter, I think she
still works down here.
I don't, I I, I'm not sure where she's at
now, but she ended up not needing my help.
She's like, well, I figured it out.
But it was a really pivotal moment in
my career because I had, I had been
exposed now to this entertainment
district, um, that I knew nothing about.
And it had this old building
stock, I mean, the vintage of these
buildings Yeah, were just really
impressive and specifically Route 80.
So that building was really neat to me.
So I decided to drive around and
get a feel for this district.
Um, and, and,
Chris Arrington: and this is,
this is early two thousands, 2009.
2009. Yeah.
So, and, and the, the, the vibe in 2009,
there were, there was stuff going on here.
It was, it was, uh, it wasn't as
much the urban pioneer 'cause I
was here in the early eighties and
I mean, that was urban pioneer.
Oh, yes.
And there wasn't, we're fixing
up houses and selling 'em for in,
in Winnetka Heights for $50,000.
Charlie Perdue: Totally.
Yeah.
No, this was, this was probably
tipping point, close to tipping point.
You know, Bolsa had been there
for about a year at that point.
But
Chris Arrington: nobody's building
apartments over here yet, right?
No, the big boys hadn't gotten here yet.
Maybe that one, that one, uh, there,
there over at Greenbriar and Beckley.
Yeah.
There that might have been
Charlie Perdue: here
was, um, Alan McDonald.
He, he had a, yeah, he had a company,
and I forget the name of that company,
but there was a few companies, the Demco.
I can't remember.
Okay.
But he had, um, they were buying up land,
snatching up land, um, at that point.
And, but no, it was,
it was really early on.
Um, but,
Chris Arrington: but the lakes
had, uh, Bishop Arts established.
Yeah.
Pretty well, I think.
I think Jim, like it hadn't moved
south with all the new stuff.
Charlie Perdue: I think Jim liked
senior bought in 1985 or 1983.
It was something.
It was, yeah.
A something around a long time there.
Um, and then, you know, he died and
obviously Jim Junior took that on and,
um, has done what he's done with it.
So, but no, I, I decided to, you
know, drive around and get a feel for
the area and I kept seeing all these
cool buildings, you know, I went by
Bolson and saw that cool building.
Mm-hmm.
I went down into Bishop Arts and
saw some other cool buildings, and
I went back, I went back to the
office, then went home and started.
Piece it together.
And I found that the common
denominator of those cool buildings
was a company called Good Space.
Yeah.
And, uh, and David
Spence who's behind that.
And so I reached out to David and
I said, David, I'm this broker.
I I really like this neighborhood.
Could I buy you lunch and
you can tell me about it?
And can I tell you about me?
And he, you know, in in later years
was just like, you know, I've got calls
from brokers all the time and half I'd
ignore and the other half I'd take,
and he took mine and we went to lunch.
And I remember vividly him ordering a
grilled cheese sandwich, which I thought
was super strange for an older man to
order a grilled cheese sandwich, you know?
And, uh, so I knew he was a unique
guy, um, at that point, but.
We had a great lunch and he,
um, did you eat at Hunky Huns?
Yeah.
Yeah.
That's his favorite restaurant.
That's his place, yeah.
Chris Arrington: Yeah,
Charlie Perdue: yeah.
His favorite restaurant.
And I just got burned out over the
years of eating with him over there.
Um, but he, uh, he, which
is hunky is fantastic.
Oh, yeah.
Um, so from there we had a great
conversation and then I just, I begged him
for probably two weeks after that, just
persistently hounded him for business.
'cause I had, I had determined at that
point that I was gonna move my business to
North Oak Cliff and stop doing what I was
doing and then just kind of be a catchall
commercial real estate broker for this
submarket that we call North Oak Cliff.
Chris Arrington: Okay.
Let me, let me just, uh.
So Charlie, you're, you're in downtown
Dallas, which is a, a very unique market.
Maybe, maybe it mimics, uh, or, or Las
Colinas has a, a little bit of downtown
feel to it, and then you come to the
old, you know, other side of town.
Yeah.
Um, what, and, and you're, you've
mentioned that it was the appeal,
the maybe the history or Yeah.
Any other little, like what?
Well, it
Charlie Perdue: that's,
you took a big jump.
I took a big jump, but
I had no liabilities.
I, I, I mean, I had very little
liabilities and I had no dependents.
I mean, it was just me.
I wasn't married at the time.
Um, oh yeah.
Oh, you're just a single guy just
Chris Arrington: out there.
Charlie Perdue: Yeah.
And it spoke to who I am anyway.
I mean, I'm, my bent is more private.
I, you know, and I, I,
I'm not looking to be.
You know, in the limelight and in busy
places and with a whole bunch of people,
and I'm, I've come to learn, I'm more
introverted than I ever thought I was.
Um, yeah.
And, you know, uh, confirmed by
my wife and close friends that
know me, and they're like, oh
yeah, you're totally introverted.
And I was like, oh, I in
a business where you have
Chris Arrington: to approach people, Uhhuh
Charlie Perdue: and I, I never,
I never, I never thought that
of myself, but I, I really am.
And it, now it all makes sense because
of just who I am and, and, uh, so
anyways, it was this little market that
was very unsophisticated at the time.
Yeah.
A lot of blue collared owners.
Um, and so my, you know, my goal was to
come into this market and in two things,
earn their trust and educate them on what
a commercial real estate broker does and
the, and the value that they can provide.
Um, that was it.
And so for the first two years.
That's what I did.
Um, and it, that was what, you
know, that and the fact that this
was an entertainment district that
was insulated, it was very unique.
A lot of entertainment districts,
you know, are on main roads.
Mm-hmm.
Um, like if you look at Greenville
or Deep A or things like
that, they're on these major.
You know, roads, deep eism.
But, uh, you know, if you look at Bishop
Arts, you've gotta go off of major
roads to get into this little windy
road to get, get into this place where,
you know, traffic is, is not easy.
And what makes Bishop Arts really
special is that, you know, you can't,
you can't drive a car more than about
15 miles an hour in Bishop Arts.
Yeah.
And so it's slow.
Yeah.
And so therefore it, you know, it, it
really enables people to walk around
and to, uh, bring, bring the crowds,
um, because it's safe and people
bring their kids and stuff like that.
So, um, I thought that was really
interesting, the building vintage, the,
that aspect, you know, of, of Bishop
Arts District and the fact that it was
unsophisticated and no one was here.
So I have very little competition.
Uh, options.
Real estate was here.
Joe McElroy's outfit was here.
Mm-hmm.
Square foot.
Those two, uh, were the.
What I had sized up is
potential competition for me.
Right.
Um, other than that, none of the
people I'd compete with would ever
come over here for a lot of reasons.
It just didn't, it didn't
make sense financially.
That was the biggest reason, you
know, because they, they have all
these different splits with a bigger
company and they gotta make big fees.
Yeah.
I didn't have to do that.
I worked for myself and so I
could make small fees and they
still had a significant, you
know, impact on my, on my bottom
Chris Arrington: line.
And then you probably went from, uh,
you know, I'm just imagining from a
downtown, more of talking corporate
and you mentioned more blue collar own,
just regular guy owns the building.
I mean, yeah.
Explain that a little.
What, what's the change, you know,
in, in a commercial real estate guy?
Who's really used to talking to probably
a pre pretty sophisticated, uh, investor
or owner to the regular, the regular guy.
Charlie Perdue: Well, it just spoke
to me because I, I'm a regular guy,
you know, I, I'm nothing special.
I'm not a super smart individual.
You know, I'm, I'm
just, I'm a hard worker.
Chris Arrington: Yeah.
Charlie Perdue: Um, and that, that
really, you know, that, that was a sinking
mechanism with, with me and, and people of
Oak Cliff because there were a lot, a lot
of mom and pops, a lot of hard workers.
So we had that in common.
That was the, that was the
similarity that we had.
And I, I could connect with
people from that perspective.
I'm out doing hard work, you know,
they're doing hard work and we
had a, an appreciation for that.
Chris Arrington: And, and what do you
think it, uh, 'cause this is another
question that comes into my mind.
What do you think, um.
You had that gain trust for those people?
'cause I, I, I can imagine
owning a building and have all
these fancy commercial guys try
to come in and do stuff for me.
Like, yeah, I don't know if I trust you.
Um, what, what was your,
what was your secret sauce?
Charlie Perdue: Well, I, yeah, I
don't know if it's a secret, but I, I
think I, I, in retrospect, I think I
approached those people with humility.
Um, tried to, uh, because I didn't
know anything about Oak Cliff at
the time, you know, so there was
a, there was a kind of an inherent
humility that I brought to the table.
Mm-hmm.
Um, but a certain level of experience
too that would probably catch
their eye and, uh, keep us talking.
But empathy, really just, just
empathizing with that person, you know,
whoever it is and, um, you know, and
what their needs might be and, and.
And then just kind of being there
to answer the phone and, and take
their call and, you know, and, and
follow up and show them that I care.
And that it's not just about a
fee, but it's about, I'm really
trying to lay down roots for me.
Mm-hmm.
And someday my family.
And this is a market that
I'm not gonna abandon.
I'm not going to abandon, you know,
this is, this is, I'm here for good.
And you and you've,
Chris Arrington: and you're still here.
Yeah.
We're talking about the start of
something that's still going on.
You don't have, I mean, this is 16 years.
You are, you are the, you are
the pie man now, but, we'll,
we'll get into that later.
I, yeah.
Uh, yeah.
Little teaser there.
Got the pie, man.
So, so where, so where are
we now from those early days?
Um, is there more competition
and what, what is the commercial
market like in Oak Cliff?
In,
Charlie Perdue: yeah.
Well, let me, let me back up real quick.
I do want to give.
Credit where credit's due
my career wouldn't be where
it's at without David Spence.
Chris Arrington: Yeah.
And you guys have become good friends too.
And y'all, y'all run together.
I mean,
Charlie Perdue: he's a, uh, sorry.
He's, um,
Chris Arrington: it's okay.
Charlie Perdue: Sorry.
Chris Arrington: No, it's okay.
Hey, we had this Jan, Jan Miller and
I were talking in the last podcast,
and I think that's a lot of Oak Cliff.
There's some deep feelings.
There's people that have helped that
Charlie Perdue: there is, uh, he's
just, uh, he, he's an amazing guy
and he's, uh, just anyways, yeah, I
wouldn't have what I have without him.
Yeah.
Um,
Chris Arrington: I hear you.
Charlie Perdue: So, uh,
okay.
So yeah, he made countless
introductions for me.
Um.
Spoke of me very highly,
you know, trusted me.
Um, and so I always wanted
to live up to that trust.
Um, yeah.
So it was, yeah, it was, there was
two things that were really special
about Oak Cliff, you know, it was,
it was that fateful call that, that
drew me here through the power Right.
Of God.
Yes.
He go,
Chris Arrington: how did that happen?
Charlie Perdue: Yes.
And then David Spence, who just
kind of came outta nowhere and, uh,
really just kind of took me under
his wing because I appreciated what
he did, and I had a, a deep interest
for what he knew and his knowledge.
Mm-hmm.
Like, he's got a capacity.
I mean, you know him, you know better than
I do, but he, he's got a capacity for,
for knowledge That is super impressive.
Um, so anyways, I just wanted
to, I wanted to let you know
that it wouldn't be possible.
My story's not possible without him in it.
Yeah.
No,
Chris Arrington: I understand.
Charlie Perdue: Um, but Oak Cliff,
you know, from a market perspective,
it is, it is certainly evolved.
It's one of the fastest growing, you know,
uh, markets, I mean, in Texas for sure.
Chris Arrington: Yeah.
Charlie Perdue: Um, and
it's, it's a pretty, pretty
diverse and amazing submarket.
I think what makes it really special is
just, is really the individuals, the mom
and pops, the, that is really the, there's
something about this neighborhood, this
market, this, I'd call it, you know,
a submarket, that it really attracts
just hardworking people that want to do
business for themselves and are willing
to take risks and, and, and do that.
Um, and I haven't seen that in
other areas that I, I. That I've
done business in necessarily.
Mm-hmm.
These, these people have really just
deep interest in doing business, um,
and in going after a concept or going
after an idea that they really love
and that they're passionate about.
Um, and so, and the most successful ones
are very, they have a hybrid business.
They, they do, they do.
One of, you know, they do several things.
Mm-hmm.
Um, in order to stay afloat.
1, 1, 1 part of that business is down,
another part of the business is up.
Chris Arrington: Mm-hmm.
Charlie Perdue: Kind of gig.
Um, but, you know, it is, it's
special too because we've got a
neighborhood that really supports
this entertainment district and that
uses the entertainment district.
Chris Arrington: Okay.
So I live here and I know people from the.
Other parts of town and other
suburbs, and so come in here.
But, but you're telling me the
neighborhood really supports it well too.
Even, even though we've kinda gotta
have people coming in from outside Yeah.
The
Charlie Perdue: destination
can't buy into it unless the
neighborhood around it supports it.
Mm-hmm.
If the neighborhood around it doesn't
like it, then it's hard for anybody
coming in to, to really validate, you
know, that that area, you know, so
Chris Arrington: people that are coming
in kind of come in and say, well,
seems like the locals are here too.
So it's gotta be good.
It's not just, I think they, you know,
somebody did a good marketing idea and
Charlie Perdue: I think they
envy somewhat and admire just.
People that are able to live here and
use the entertainment district, watching
people bike from, you know, their homes
and, and you know, come with their
kids, you know, walking with their kids
or biking with their kids with a flag
sticking out the back and, you know,
and then going up to Enos and having
a beer and, you know, having a, yeah.
Having a pizza.
Yeah.
There's something that's really just
lovely about that, that I think people
get a kick out of, and you don't see
that in a lot of destination locations,
so you've got kind of a twofold thing.
You've got people coming in from the
region to check out this place, and
then you've got the neighborhood,
um, coming in to, you know, play and
support, you know, what's going on in a
lot of play in, in a lot of instances.
The people that are, uh, that
own these businesses that we
frequent all live within our
neighborhoods and these five Yeah.
You know, neighborhoods that
we, I. That we consist of.
Yeah.
Chris Arrington: So, okay.
And now here, this is another
thing that crosses my mind.
You're, you're in a business
that, um, eats people up.
I mean, commercial real estate, you
can do well, you can go downhill fast.
I mean, you can make a bad investment.
And it sounds like really
what's your flavor in this area?
And, and what you've developed is, um,
that smaller, maybe smaller entrepreneur,
he's got a great idea and it's, and it, it
really, his emotion, everything is in it.
How, how do you keep the emotional
part of a guy in his business
as an entrepreneurial dreams and
everything and the real life?
Hey, you're making an investment, dude.
We're not, this isn't play money.
Yeah.
How do you keep people from
maybe making a mistake or.
Or, or is that even part of your job?
Charlie Perdue: Well, I think when you
get to kind of the commercial real estate
level, you know, that, um, you've got
some discretionary money at that point.
You know, you either, you either have
a business, you know, you're an owner
or user, um, like yourself mm-hmm.
Where you've got a business that's
gonna backfill this, this building
that can support the debt service.
Um, or you are, you are an investor
who's got enough money that they can
put toward an asset that if things
go wrong, it's not, they've now gone
beyond the stock market for most people.
Mm-hmm.
For most people, it starts with your home.
That's the biggest investment that
someone's going to make in their
lifetime for the, for most people.
Beyond that, you've got,
you've got the stock market.
Chris Arrington: Mm-hmm.
Charlie Perdue: Um, and then
beyond that, you've got.
You know, commercial real estate,
but all those things kind of work
together, so by the time, you know,
I get to 'em, it, they've, they can.
What's funny about commercial real
estate is there's, you know, in the,
if I remember right, the, and I, I
don't do any residential brokerage
at all, but like when I go and buy a
house, part of that process is, is,
well, we need to see proof of funds.
You know, we need a letter
from your bank mm-hmm.
That says that you're
qualified to buy this property.
You don't get that in
commercial real estate.
It is just a, it's understood, it's
implied that this buyer has got the
cash to do what they need to do.
So it is, I mean, I can't tell
you the last time anybody said.
You know, does your buyer have money?
I mean, it just, it just is.
Yeah.
Um, and it's more about the historical
performance of those buyers.
How do they close?
Do they close?
How quick do they close?
You know, what's the reliability there?
Um, because generally speaking, these
commercial transactions are longer.
Um, so, so, so
Chris Arrington: in, in, in this
area, the area that you're in are,
are you dealing more with investor
buyers or, uh, owner buyers?
Charlie Perdue: Yeah, all of them.
So I've got, I got three tranches that
I, I that I, that make up my business.
Um, I represent, I represent small
business owners, entrepreneurs.
Um, that's one.
Number two, I, I represent
investors, people that are looking
to buy buildings with tenants in
'em, or buy empty buildings to
create some sort of rental income.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and then number three, developers.
So I'll go out and I'll assemble
land for commercial real estate
developers, mainly for the purpose
of multifamily, um, and mixed use.
And so those three tranches,
I, that's my business.
And beyond that, um, beyond that,
I, I tend to represent buyers only.
Mm-hmm.
Um, or primarily buyers
with off market deals.
I rarely do things that, um, are.
On market where you have, you
see a sign and you buy it.
Uh, most of every, I would say 95%
of what I do is in the shadows.
And it it just like this building,
Chris, we bought this building.
It was not on the market.
No, it, it, that's,
that's, that's what I do.
Um, so I, and there's just a,
there's a certain story and just a,
an allure to doing off market deals
for both the buyer and the seller.
Um, and there's pluses and minuses to,
there's downside and upside to that.
But that's, that's what
I do in a nutshell.
I
Chris Arrington: think now
that's, that's not something I
ever really ever thought about.
'cause you always think, well,
nothing's for sale unless you
see a sign in front of it.
Right.
And you're saying no stuff's
selling all the time.
Yeah.
Things are moving.
And you, you'd have no idea.
Charlie Perdue: No idea.
And it, and you know, to.
Chase's point earlier about just kind of
land appreciation, property appreciation,
taxes, you know, a big, a big part of
trying to, you know, the process of
mitigating, you know, property taxes,
um, is trying to keep as much as you
can secret about that transaction.
And there's ways that you
can do that throughout the,
the, the acquisition process.
But there's, you know, a big
way is just, you know, your
property never goes up for sale.
I mean, they see a deed transfer,
the county does, but they've gotta
make assumptions at that point.
Mm-hmm.
So, um, the, you know, the little,
you can let the public know about
what you're doing, the better it
is for my client, you know, and so
their interests are, is top priority.
And so we pursue, I pursue more
off market opportunities, um.
It's
Chris Arrington: on your website, it
says, uh, business ethics and moral
morals guide every recommendation.
I'm sure in the commercial real estate
industry, there might be some lying
and cheating going on or somewhere.
Yeah.
Any insights on that or any, like, for
the people that are listening, what to
kinda keep an eye out for and not to get
Charlie Perdue: mm-hmm.
Chris Arrington: Shafted on a,
on a, on a real estate deal.
Call you.
That's one.
Yeah.
Let Charlie take care of you.
Charlie Perdue: Yeah.
Maybe.
Yeah.
I, I, you know, um, it is, I mean,
in every industry, I mean, you've
got your wolves, you know what
I mean, in, in your industry.
Mm-hmm.
Um, every industry has bad apples.
Um, and it's never the easy road.
To do the right thing.
Yeah, it is, it is a hard path to
follow and, um, I think you just
have to stay true to yourself.
And if you've got a commitment, you know,
to where I've got a commitment to North
Oak Cliff and the people that live in it.
And so I'm never going to sustain my
presence here if I operate, you know,
you know, like a Jack Rabbit, you know?
Yeah.
I'm just, I'm not going to, I'm
not gonna have any stain power.
So you do have to, you know,
make sure that you're operating,
you know, above reproach with,
with everything that you do.
And sometimes you fail sometimes.
You know, life gets the best of you.
Mm-hmm.
And you make some wrong decisions, but
it's how you, you come out of that and,
you know, in humility, ask for forgiveness
and, you know, try to, try to work it out.
But yeah, there is, you know, it's
easier for brokers that kind of sniper
in, sniper out, that don't have a real
geographical focus, that they'll do a
deal over here and they'll do a deal over
here, and then they'll do a deal up in
Frisco and they'll do, because they're
just kind of, they're here one day and
gone the next, you know, so they're
Chris Arrington: just, they just wanna
get their commission and get outta town.
It gets
Charlie Perdue: fee based interest
and, and that's all they're doing.
They're after that, they're
not after building a presence.
And so, yeah, I think that's
because, as a reminder to everyone,
Chris Arrington: I mean, char Charlie
works and lives in the area that.
He services and mm-hmm.
So you see people at, they're your
neighbors, you know, probably,
you've probably done a lot of deals
that you've helped your neighbors.
It
Charlie Perdue: it, that's
really funny you mentioned that.
Uh, one of the things, you know, I used
to make the commute for years, 45 minutes
up, 45 minutes down from where I grew up.
And in 2001 we moved the family down here.
Um, so what was so.
Just really cool about what I learned
when I lived here was just kind of
looking up who my neighbors were.
Mm-hmm.
And a lot of 'em are my clients.
Yeah.
You know, we got mm-hmm.
Rick Barton down the street, Larry
Vanderwood, just all, all these people I
lived beside Robert Gossett, who's I've
worked on, you know, when he was with
Graham Bank and other things like that.
And then just, just the small world that
all that entails, you know, it's just, uh,
anyways, I can go on with just a list of
people that are all in my neighborhood,
but we've all done business together.
Chris Arrington: Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Okay.
So, so I'll give you a minute to think.
I want you to think of a story of, uh,
a small business owner or, or a buyer.
'cause he said you
mostly work with a buyer.
That was a real success story.
May maybe that started with, oh my gosh.
I don't know.
I don't know if this is gonna work
guys, but you overcame a cop obstacle
or something and it was one of
those fun stories that you like.
Wow.
Charlie Perdue: Oh gosh.
I mean, I have tons of 'em.
I mean, I have tons of those stories.
Okay.
And just pick one.
I mean, the most recent one,
um, you know, we finalized this
transaction, I think it was last
week and last week, the week before.
And it was a big struggle and it's a
building that we all are familiar with
and, uh, the seller had come across
some hard times, needed to get out.
The bank was gonna
foreclose on the building.
We came in and rescued that deal.
I brought the buyer
and, uh, again, another.
A company that you guys are familiar
with, which was really, really cool
because this building was gonna
serve their needs as far as growth
goes for way into the future.
So this
Chris Arrington: is an owner,
Charlie Perdue: this is
an owner building by owner
Chris Arrington: user.
Yeah.
Charlie Perdue: A
Chris Arrington: user.
Charlie Perdue: And, you know, the
seller had been hiring all these
brokers to try to find investors to buy
this building because it had, uh, it
has income, it has a current figure.
They, they figured they
Chris Arrington: could get
a faster sale, probably
Charlie Perdue: faster sale, but,
but, but also, you know, generally
if you've got income in a building,
the way you approach value on those
as far as price goes is through
what's called a capitalization rate.
Mm-hmm.
So you apply a cap rate
to the income stream and.
You know, in the past it's, it's been
pretty low, those cap rates, which had
been good for sellers, uh, but since
interest rates have risen as high as
they have, and, um, operating costs have
gotten so expensive, those cap rates
have gone up, which is better for buyers.
So he was, he kept looking in this
kind of silo for these investors to
come buy this property on a cap rate.
But, you know, the tenant
was, um, a great tenant.
Been around for about five years,
um, but doesn't have really
any, like, impressive credit.
Doesn't have an impressive credit profile.
He's not a credit tenant,
what we call credit tenant.
Um, so he's just kind of like, you
just have to, you gotta look at his
financials and make sure that, you know,
their financials are going up and, um.
You can have some confidence because
again, they're buying an income stream,
and so the emphasis is on the tenant.
Mm-hmm.
If the tenant goes away, well then I
just, I overpaid for a building, so
that wasn't working out well for him.
And he gave me a call and, um, I
called, uh, a client that I've had
for 10 plus years and I said, this
building would be good for you guys.
They said no at first and moved on,
and a week later they called and
said, is that building still for sale?
Still for sale?
And I said, I think it is.
Wow.
So we picked it up and we had to jump
through a bunch of hoops and it was
super, super, uh, it got super frustrating
throughout the process and challenging
because it, it became clear that the
seller couldn't, couldn't even meet his
obligation to, to, to sell the building
based on the money we were paying him.
And so the lenders were coming after
him saying, we need our money back.
Yeah.
But the price that we had negotiated was
actually below what he owed to the bank.
Chris Arrington: Mm-hmm.
Charlie Perdue: But he couldn't, that
delta, that difference he couldn't afford.
So we had to, I had to gingerly talk
to my clients about, look, let's give
back, let's give back the rent proration,
let's give back the security deposits.
Let's give back the, the tax
proration all the credits that
traditionally a buyer will get.
Uhhuh, we had to give back in
order to make the deal work.
Um, and we still came out really good.
You know, from a, from a, an investment
standpoint, if you looked at it purely
from an investment standpoint, we, I
think we landed around a 10 cap, which
is a really good cap rate for a buyer.
Um, but the bonus of it is,
is they're gonna, you know,
whether the tenant goes or.
Stays.
I mean, you know, if, if the tenant
leaves, they can backfill the space.
Yeah.
Because they've got a, a
proven concept that makes Yeah.
A good money.
Wow.
So, uh, it was really challenging.
Many calls, many early mornings and
late nights of trying to, but you saved
a foreclosure, which is a nightmare.
So it was a win win.
Who wants to go through that
was, it was a win for the seller.
'cause he didn't have to
go through that process.
It was a win for the bank because they
didn't have real estate on their books.
It was a win for my client because they
just, now they've got an investment,
now they've got a building that's, it's
gonna secure their future well into Yeah.
You know, their old age.
Um, and it was good for me.
Yeah.
So it, everything aligned
Chris Arrington: that
that's a great story.
Yeah.
So, okay.
Uh, let's, let's.
Zoom out a little bit.
And do you have any overview
of what, what's going on in
commercial real estate right now?
I mean, what, what does it look like?
Charlie Perdue: Yeah.
Um, it's a good question.
You know, we, we are coming off of a,
just a, an really just a, like a, an for
the, like the last, since since COVID.
Mm-hmm.
Um, in, I'd say in 2001, interest
rates hit an all time blow in 2001.
Um, I'm sorry, COVID was 2020.
So in, in 2020, I'd say around like April,
interest rates hit like three and a half.
There were three, 3.25%.
Yeah.
They went way down.
And they stayed way down at three
and a quarter for two years.
So not until about June of 2022 did
interest rates start to spike up.
Mm-hmm.
But during that time coming off
of COVID, the government had
flooded the economy with money.
And so people came outta COVID, you
know, ready to get back into it.
And they, and money was
almost, it cost no free almost.
It was free.
It was free money.
It was the lowest it had ever been.
Yeah.
And so buyers were all over the place.
And that time was a very good
time to be a seller because it
was, uh, it was just amazing.
It was, I'd say low hanging fruit,
but it, it was, uh, you could have
half the story and get a deal done.
It was just like, we've got this deal.
And before you'd finish deal,
it was like, let's get into it.
Wow.
Let's go get it.
Um, and so, but it, it also had
drawbacks because it, it really
gave a false perception of what
value really was for real estate.
Okay.
And what value really was for businesses.
People were selling businesses too.
And, um, so it gave this, you know, just
this overinflated sense of value of a
business that just wasn't really there.
Um, so these last several years have been
tough in the sense that, you know, in
2002, interest rates started going up,
going up, reaching 9% commercial rates.
Um, and now I think they're down to 7.5%.
Primes, like 7.5%.
Um, and so it just
sidelined all the investors.
Um, the, the investors just said,
look, we're gonna put our money in in
treasuries and we're gonna make 5%.
And.
We're just not gonna do anything.
So, you know, business and commercial
real estate hit an all time low.
I mean, it was, it was a big slowdown.
And so coming off of that, you
know, we thought maybe the election
would start to, people would get
back to normal and there'd be some
optimism with just a new president.
And it's just been very,
just kind of touch and go.
I mean, it's been a, it's, I've been
very busy, but it's, it's very, uh, all
the deals are much more scrutinized.
Um, everybody is evaluating
their deal with a closer eye now.
Okay.
And things have to be relatively
perfect for deals to get done.
Um, versus over the last two
years where it was just like.
We've got so much margin because
money's so cheap to borrow that we
have so much money from a, we have so
much margin from a cash flow point of
view that we can afford to take risks.
And now, okay, because money
is so expensive to borrow,
your margin is, mm-hmm.
Is, is diminished.
And so you've got very little
room buffer to really play with.
So you've got more risk on the table.
And so now deals are, they're harder
to, they're harder to get done.
Chris Arrington: Is there a hot
neighborhood right now or a favorite
area you like to sell in or, well,
Charlie Perdue: I mean, to my earlier
point, I only do North Oak Cliff, so I,
I have a geographical focus and so my
submarkets that I patrol and I transact
in are West Dallas, north Oak, cliff,
and East Oak Cliff, those three core
urban areas around downtown, those are
the only markets that I transact in.
And I do, I transact
on every property type.
Except for, okay, if it's in
my market, I hit that property
type except for residential.
And so just for
Chris Arrington: clarity, west
Dallas is kind of Trinity Groves Yep.
Area.
Mm-hmm.
What's known?
North Oak Cliff Bishop Arts
is what everybody knows.
Yeah, but what East?
East Oak Cliff, the what?
What would, what would
the vernacular Dallas Zoo.
Charlie Perdue: So like East the zoo.
East Oak Cliff is everything
east of 35 all the way to Ke.
Okay.
Ba basically ke kind of runs like this.
Okay.
And um.
You know, east Oak Cliff has
gained a lot of momentum lately.
It's kind of, we have, we have hope
in feeling that East Oak Cliff is
gonna be like Bishop Arts in 20 years.
Um, okay.
And so we've got some momentum
with the park deck that's coming
in between Marus and Ewing and then
Yeah, the Dallas Zoo, which, which
butts up against that park deck.
Um, and then, and they're
Chris Arrington: building
Charlie Perdue: that park
Chris Arrington: deck now.
Charlie Perdue: Yep.
And then you've got, you've
got a lot of development that's
starting to happen behind the zoo.
So think of the zoo as the,
as the, the, the nucleus.
It's, it is, it is kind of, it is,
the value of real estate is higher
the closer it is to the Dallas Zoo.
And it just kind of dissipates from, is
Chris Arrington: it, where is law
reunion, because I hear that that's West
Charlie Perdue: Dallas.
Chris Arrington: That's
West Dallas, Uhhuh.
Okay.
Yeah.
Um, what, what areas
Charlie Perdue: are there in the
East Oak Cliff area that I, there's
a place called Vermont Village, which
is, uh, Ewing and Vermont that has a
cache of, of old buildings that Okay.
Oh.
I'm putting investors in and, and users.
And, um, and then there's, uh, what,
uh, AJ Ramer with proxy, his has
kind of coined is, is East Dock.
And he's doing a, a 60,000 square
foot development at basically Ewing
and Claraton, which is on the,
the south entrance of the zoo.
Okay.
And so there's some multifamily
that's being built up there.
And, you know, my job has been to
kind of place the right developers,
um, you know, and investors in
those areas to, to start kind of
transition that, that neighborhood.
Oh.
Um, so that
Chris Arrington: area
is gonna change a lot.
It's
Charlie Perdue: gonna change.
And the impetus for that was, was really.
W the investors being priced
out of end users, you know, and
entrepreneurs being priced out of B Bar.
You know, it, it's at a point
now, 'cause how developers work,
they don't come early to the game.
They, they have, they're the
last people to get to the market.
They need a proven market in order
for them to justify the risk to
go in, because their costs are
so high, their developments are
10 to 30 to 40 to $50 million.
Yeah.
Okay.
And so they have, they would rather buy
high and have little risk or no risk
than come in early, buy low and have
this huge amount of risk on the table.
Chris Arrington: Right.
Charlie Perdue: So the risk is where,
really, where the small business owners,
entrepreneurs, and investors play in.
Mm-hmm.
They, they dabble in that and they'll
go in and they'll buy something up.
They'll either entitle that
property or they'll just sit on
it, um, or try to monetize it, but
then they'll, they'll contribute.
And, uh, either with the developer or
sell to the developer, but that's kind
of the evolution of, of real estate.
So, so Charlie, when,
Chris Arrington: when you've got this
shift, um, in an older neighborhood, um.
Do you know which way it's going to go?
Do you know what, like, is it, is there,
is there some kind of a pattern where,
okay, it, it's gonna be more office
heavy or it's gonna be more entertainment
heavy or food or do you know?
Or does it just
Charlie Perdue: kind
of organically happen?
Some of it's organic.
You can kind of predict it based on
the demographics, you know what I mean?
You can kind of, which, which is kind
of funny, you know, with Bishop Arts is
kind of an exception, um, because it is,
you know, historically the demographic
around the immediate area of Bishop
Arts has been very low, low income,
household median income, just little
houses, just little, little houses.
Um, and I mean, I think your,
your household income was
around like 40 to 60,000.
So it, people would come in from Chicago,
you know, investors and stuff, and
they're like, I hear we need to buy here.
And it's like, but.
I mean these houses and they
just didn't understand the
demographics, but it was an anomaly.
Like people would come in and, and you
know, it was a destination location.
And then you had these kind of five
affluent neighborhoods around Bishop Arts,
east Kessler, Kessler, Stevens Park, you
know, uh, uh, kids Springs, just yeah.
AKA, Heights, all these, all
these neighborhoods were around
it that would support it.
And so they brought their discretionary
income and, and supported Bishop Arts.
But so that, so that has helped.
It has to, to to have a,
Chris Arrington: yeah.
Yeah.
Some affluent areas that, that can
really put, put some money into
those businesses and keep 'em going.
'cause I know you bought, I dunno
if you still have or if your office
there, you bought a little house.
Yeah, I, I have to for your office,
but next door to you was like a
coffee bar and then next, that
was in a, a bowl restaurant place.
And then, um, I mean, it was,
it was a bunch of different.
And then some retail and
Charlie Perdue: yeah.
And the zoning that got put
in place there, um, which
is, I think it's CD seven.
But anyways, it allows
for those permitted uses.
You can do office, you can do retail,
you can do a, you know, a, a private
club, um, those kind of things.
And so
Chris Arrington: it, so it's
pretty wide open, like for some
people that might be scary to go.
Well, I don't know if I
wanna put my thing here.
'cause don't, don't, I always
thought that, um, businesses like
to go in the same area, you know,
like you, uh, see an area restaurant
where all the restaurants are.
Yeah.
Or you know, there's the entertainment
over here or there's offices
over here and it's kind of mixed.
Is it kind of mixed up?
Charlie Perdue: It is mixed.
Uh, we have, you know, I think
we have more restaurants.
Uh, in the past than we've had now.
We, we have kind of a healthy
amount of, of, of retail, but I
mean, what really sells is alcohol.
I mean, that, that tops everything.
Mm-hmm.
Um, so it is a consideration for,
you know, I think any small business
owner in the, in the hospitality
space to think about alcohol.
Um, and certainly for investors when
they're looking to fill buildings,
they're, they're, they're looking for,
you know, in a large degree for alcohol
sales, um, because it, it's sustainable.
People are gonna do it.
But you know, what's also unique about,
um, Bishop Arts about this area in East
Oakcliff and West Dallas, uh, not as
much West Dallas, but, but North Oakcliff
and East Oakcliff, is that you've
got a large stock of small buildings.
Okay.
Versus other neighborhoods or other
commercial districts where you've
got these big, large buildings, which
you and I can't go buy, you know?
Yeah.
It is just too expensive,
but you can go buy it.
It'ss an old grocery store, right?
Chris Arrington: It's like,
Charlie Perdue: yeah, you, you just,
you, you, you need, you need a lot of
money and uh uh, but in bishop parts,
you can go buy a cottage, you know, for.
500,000 to seven to a million.
Yeah.
You know, but, but when you get into
it, you can, you can afford that.
It's plausible to think that someone,
so more players can play over here.
There's, it is open to a wider
market, so you get more creativity.
You get them, you get more of these
Mom and pops, lucias, other things
like that, that are, you know,
they could go in and they can,
they can lay down roots themselves.
They can buy the property.
It's achievable.
Digestible.
They can afford it.
They can go get an SBA loan.
They can, you can't do that
in other commercial districts.
Yeah.
And, and so it makes it
special in that sense.
And so I think that's why we have such
a diverse, you know, uh, amount of just
concepts and small business owners.
Yeah.
You
Chris Arrington: don't, I, I didn't
really think about it that much, but.
I don't know.
There's, I don't know if
there's a chain at all.
Chain store national.
Yeah.
Some national name.
It's, it, it is, it's the guy
that lives over on Clinton mm-hmm.
That started a store over
here and it's mm-hmm.
Him.
Yep.
And that does make it rich because
then you go, you go, Hey, if I want
to go someplace and I want to see some
things that I don't see anywhere else.
Then you come over here.
Well, because you go, I don't
know what I'm gonna see.
Charlie Perdue: Yeah.
And there's also an inherent
accountability because I know you,
and you know me, and I know Shannon
Fendor at Oak Cliff Coffee Roasters,
and he knows me and my family.
And so there's this accountability
that you are beholden to, um, with
the people in your neighborhood that
you, you wanna live up to, you know?
Chris Arrington: Yeah.
I called, I called Cameron Cox
of Cox Farms the other day.
Right.
'cause he went to school with
one of my, couple of my sons.
And I'm like, okay, you're outta meat.
Can you go get some more steak?
It's like I'm talking to
the owner of the story.
He like, yeah, I'm doing everything I can.
Mr. Harrington, thank you for calling.
Charlie Perdue: Yeah.
And they're, and they're low on eggs too.
Yeah.
Mark Cox over there.
He's a really nice guy.
Yeah.
But I mean, yeah.
I mean, he's, he's a great
example of that, you know.
Yeah.
But most, I mean, most grocery stores
that we see around here are chain,
with the exception of that one.
Chris Arrington: Yeah.
Charlie Perdue: And now
we're getting a sprouts.
I don't know how that's gonna
impact his business, but
Chris Arrington: Yeah.
We'll see.
I'm excited for it to be here.
I mean, I think every once in a
while it's nice to have a big player.
Mm-hmm.
You know?
What's your go-to spot
for lunch in Oak Cliff?
Taco Deli.
Taco Deli.
My gosh.
I go there four times a week.
Gosh,
Charlie Perdue: that, are you kidding me?
I go there.
I was there yesterday.
I was there the day before.
I'm there all the time.
What's, what's your taco?
I get two Mexico City chickens on wheat.
I mean, that's it.
I mean, it's, y'all hear that it's
the healthiest, fast serve place
that you can go to, in my opinion.
Chris Arrington: Oh
Charlie Perdue: gosh.
All it is is chicken and
onions and, and cilantro.
Chris Arrington: These guys
are always going over there.
Do you ever go to Girl?
I see
Charlie Perdue: Chase there a lot.
I mean, every once in a
while I'll see 'em there.
I know I don't see you.
You're probably at Jimmy
John's or something.
I'm,
Chris Arrington: no, I'm at Grill 3 0 3.
Okay.
Because they have a tequila chicken.
I get that every single time.
The kids will tell you, wow,
I'm, I'm such a rut person.
I get one thing and that's all I get.
Yeah.
I mean, I walk in, they
just go get my food.
Yeah.
Charlie Perdue: They don't even ask.
That's another great thing
about this neighborhood, right?
That that's Oh, yeah.
You can, you can, it, it
is, it's reliable in that
Chris Arrington: sense.
Yeah.
Every, I mean, wherever I go in that
I frequent off and they're like, okay.
They just go get it.
They just go get it because I'm
getting the same thing pretty much.
Yeah.
Cru is like that with me.
It's just, it's like, do you want the fish
Charlie Perdue: talk up?
Isn't that
Chris Arrington: funny?
Um, okay.
If you could leave our audience
with the one thing to remember
about buying, selling, or investing
in Dallas, what would it be?
Charlie Perdue: I think you should do,
um, here's a, here's a common mistake.
I, I find, um, is that I will
find that, uh, are you talking
about from a buyer's perspective?
I'm sorry.
Well,
'
Chris Arrington: cause you're
pretty much a buyer guy.
Yeah.
You've kinda mentioned that.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Go with what you Yeah.
What your main deal
Charlie Perdue: is.
Well, from a seller's side, I
see a common mistake of people
just going to people they know.
Um, and so a lot of times they will
go and hire a realtor, you know,
to sell a commercial property.
Oh, it, oh, it doesn't
really know the area.
And it's not that the, the realtor,
uh, can't do a commercial deal.
They certainly can't.
But it is, it may not be that
they've picked the best person to
represent their best interest mm-hmm.
In that transaction mm-hmm.
For that particular property,
in that specific submarket.
And so I would, I see lots of
money left on the table from.
You know, guys like me that are able
to, that have that knowledge that
go in with their buyers and buy the
property for what they listed it for.
Mm-hmm.
But they left a lot of money on the table.
Um, and so from a seller
standpoint, do your homework.
Find out which brokers are around,
you know, go look at signs, you
know, go ask your friends and,
you know, no hard feelings.
Pick the broker that's gonna
serve your best interest.
Um, from a buy side,
it's all about the money.
So get your capital down pat.
You know, if, if you're don't
call me or some other broker
and go, this is what I wanna do.
I'm ready to go do it, and not
have your financing in order.
Mm-hmm.
If your financing, financing is not in
order, you're gonna be beat up every time.
Yeah.
You're gonna not be able to compete.
So that, that's the first thing.
Chris Arrington: Do, do the sellers look
at, I don't know if they wanna sell.
'cause he is not serious.
I'm wasting my time.
Well,
Charlie Perdue: I don't,
I don't take on any.
Customers, I mean at, at, at my stage
in my career, you know, and given the
fact that I only work in these markets,
Chris Arrington: yeah,
Charlie Perdue: I know
pretty much everybody.
And so when I come with a buyer, um, I.
My hope is, is that they understand
that I'm not going to pair
myself up with somebody that's
ill-equipped to, to transact.
Yeah.
'
Chris Arrington: cause
you got a reputation.
Charlie Perdue: Because I have
a reputation not only in the
market, but with those brokers
that I have to do business with.
I wanna live up to their expectation.
I want to congratulate them for
choosing me and my buyer, because
that takes a leap of faith.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and so my buyers know like,
look, we're not gonna retrade deals.
We're not, we're, we're gonna stand
by our deal and we're gonna close.
And the only exception to that
is if there's some environmental
issue that can't be worked
out between buyer and seller
Chris Arrington: Right.
Charlie Perdue: Then we
probably need to part ways.
But other than that, you've made a deal.
Let your yes.
Be yes.
And your no be no.
And let's get it done.
Chris Arrington: Got it.
Yeah.
Okay.
I'm gonna, I'm gonna end on, 'cause
the, the interesting thing about
you right now too is, and, um,
we're putting a roof on this little.
Cottage.
It was a little house.
Yeah.
And, uh, you know, and you know,
Dave man had to be a certain color
and it has to be a certain way.
And it's gotta be, everything's
gotta be straight and square.
And I tell 'em all the time, I go,
Dave, all your buildings are handsome.
You have handsome buildings.
They're, they're, they're, they're,
they're all, their, their, their collars
are straight, their pants are all pressed.
They're perfect.
They're all, they all look very nice.
And I go, well, so
who's, who's going here?
And he, and I remember him just kind of
going, oh, it's a couple little girls.
And I mean, they're
gonna do a pie kitchen.
And I don't know, I mean, Dave really
likes to have long-term tenants,
you know, you know, I mean, that
is a, and it's great for a property
owner to have long-term tenants.
And he's thinking, they're starting
this thing up and I have no idea.
And I think they even lived upstairs
when they first started this and this,
this is the emporium Emporium pies.
Yeah.
Emporium pies.
Yeah.
And if you don't know about
emporium pies, then you haven't.
Eating pies 'cause they
make the best pies.
Yeah.
And now what's the story?
All of a sudden I go, I I,
I see Landon over there.
And, and yeah, because I
went over there, what was it?
It was for Thanksgiving or something.
And you guys have got a booth
out front and you've got a
bazillion pies stacked up.
'cause everybody wants a pie.
And I'm like, what are you doing here?
He goes, she, she says, oh
well this is our pie place now.
Like this is our business.
What?
The Purdue owned the pie so.
Finish on that or what happened?
Charlie Perdue: Yeah.
Let me tell you that story.
So, um, you know those three tranches
I talked about of who I represent?
Yeah.
Small business owners, entrepreneurs,
investors and developers.
Yeah.
So that, that first tranche was Megan and
Paul Wilkes, who started Emporium Pies.
Okay.
I represented their interests
in commercial real estate and
handle the negotiation of their
leases, um, help them grow.
From a, a retail unit
store, um, perspective.
And that was 10 years ago.
It was a, that was 12 years ago.
Okay.
Um, and I was really fortunate to
be on the ground floor with them.
When David was interviewing them, David
called me in and he called me over and
he is like, look, I found these girls,
you know, they're right outta college.
Yes.
And they wanna start this pie company.
And I said, okay, well I'll be right over.
And so they came prepared.
If you know Megan Wilkes, um,
I don't really know them well.
She is, she is, uh, prepared to
the tee, top-notch, astute, um,
very business-minded individual.
And she came prepared
with all those traits.
Yeah.
Um, in tow and I. She just had this
great business plan and Mary was there.
And, and David, as David naturally
does, uh, injects himself
into whatever is being done.
And to David's credit, David
is David champions tenants more
than any other landlord I know.
So it, it is, he truly believes
that interests are aligned and
he looks at 'em as a partner.
Um, and so he looked at them and so when,
when, when he hears this business plan
and he thinks that there's other things
that these people can do that might.
Behoove them in the future and
increase their bottom line.
He interjects.
And so they went through kind of
their business plan and, and figured
it out together with David's help.
And, and then they were off and running.
Um, they chose 3 1 4 North Bishop,
which at the time was a different
address, but Megan had the idea to
change it to 3 1 4, which is 3.14 is pi.
So, oh gosh.
Yeah.
So she changed the address to 3 1 4 North
Bishop Avenue, which was real clever.
And of course David was on board for that.
And um, and she started this PI company.
And so through that process she
got to know me and I remember,
I don't know why vividly I
remember this, but I was walking.
Down, you know, a couple years later past
hunky toward my office crossing Bishop
and Megan was coming out of the pie shop.
She goes, Hey Charlie,
do you have a second?
And I said, sure.
And she goes, can you help us grow this
company, like from a retail perspective?
And I said, sure.
You know, and so we did.
We, we opened a store in downtown
McKinney, uh, downtown McKinney Square,
and then, uh, uh, and then Deep Ellum.
Um, okay, so we've got one deep
Ellum beside Pecan Lodge, and then
our fourth store is over in Fort
Worth, um, and near South Side.
And it, it, it's kind of a slow burn
and it's going through a transitional
period and stuff like that.
Um, but she had kind of aspirations
to grow this company to about
six or seven locations, and then
she was gonna kind of move on.
She'll tell you, uh, admittedly
she likes to start things.
She just doesn't like to sustain things.
But she did a fine job sustaining 'em.
She sustained for 10
years before we bought it.
But, um.
She had called me up and said,
Charlie, I think I'm ready to go.
Um, I think I'm ready to call it quits.
Christmases holidays are really
tough on staff at Emporium pies.
Yeah.
We sell thousands and thousands of pies.
Yes.
And so we worked through the night to fill
those orders and um, you know, there's,
there's only so many of those that you
can probably take and I think she, you
know, probably had enough, but she was
ready and her family was ready and she
had aspirations to go to Seattle and
do some things and so she called me and
said, Hey, can you sell this business?
I. And I don't wanna sell the commissary,
you know, building that you bought us.
Um, and I said, well, I'm
not, that's the one over on
Chris Arrington: Plow Plowman.
Yeah, Plowman.
Charlie Perdue: And I said,
well, I'm not a business broker.
I, you know, I don't, I
can't help you with that.
And she goes, yeah, you, you got
investors in this space, why don't
you just, I trust you, you help us.
So, um, I took it on.
And so I went after, uh, I went
after like, kind operators.
I went after private equity companies and
I went after high net worth individuals.
And, uh, those three boxes,
none of 'em would pan out.
The, the, the like kind operators
had different agendas and
budgets for different growth
opportunities for themselves.
So they didn't have a budget for that.
They didn't, they
couldn't acquire emporium.
And then the uh, uh, and then the, uh.
The private equity companies, they had
interest, but it was just too small.
It was just below their radar.
They couldn't scale it.
Oh, okay.
You know, like they, if they wanted
to, but, and then the high net worth
individuals, um, they had the money,
but they didn't have the Megan and
Paul to replace Megan and Paul.
Yeah.
So unbeknownst to me, my wife had been
working in the background by just kind
of talking to her sister Jen, about.
This prospect of Emporium pie selling.
And um, so one night I think my
landing came to me and was like, Hey,
what if, you know, what if we bought
this company, you know, type thing?
And I was like, oh no, we're
not gonna buy this company.
We don't need this company.
This is not, this is, we're,
we're in the real estate business.
You like birds.
Let's just, let's just do this, you know?
And um, she was like, oh.
And that just kind of went on.
And so I approached Megan and I was
like, you know, Landon and I are
thinking about maybe buying this company.
Would you be open to that?
And she's like, I'd love to
sell this company to you.
And we knew what she needed and what
wanted, um, and so Landon kind of behind
my back, had a conversation with Jen and,
and Jen had been running this nonprofit
organization, um, for years that she
managed like 40 people and, uh, did a
great job raising money for him and.
She was gonna go off to business school.
Um, and she, Jen goes, Landon, if you
guys buy that company, I'll step out
and I'll run that company for you.
So there was a Megan.
Chris Arrington: Oh wow.
Okay.
Well there's a big piece
of the puzzle right there.
That was the big piece.
Yeah.
Charlie Perdue: That was the linchpin.
And so, you know, we had a meeting in
our backyard with Landon and Jen and me.
Yeah.
So, and she, you know, it, the
inherent risk in this is the family
dynamic working with your family.
You probably, you probably
know that I got family.
It is, it is something that
I've tried to clear, oh, I
stay clear of for a long time.
Mm-hmm.
Um, so, you know, I just, I said, look,
there is a real risk, you know, that we
can get in cross hairs with each other.
Um, I. So we, we managed through that
and um, and there were some, you know,
working pains that, that any family
would go through, I think on the
first year of us owning that company.
But yeah.
It was, it was really neat.
Uh, you know, Megan embraced it.
We came to the table, um, ready to go.
We hired on Landon's baby, sister
Addie, her youngest sister.
Mm-hmm.
Um, and uh, so now Addie and, and
Jen and Landon run the company, they
all have complimentary skill sets.
Um.
Landon does the front of the house.
Jen is the back of the
house, um, and marketing.
And, and Addie runs the books and
operations and she's, all of them
are just phenomenal at what they do.
Wow.
And they get it done.
Um, we've, we've had, you know, it's, it's
funny 'cause our, our revenues throughout
this kind of post interest rate low and
post COVID, our, our revenues have kind
of declined since we bought it, but our
net profits have gone up by like 121%.
So it's a real testament
to how they run a business.
It's just been great.
Wow.
Driving expenses down.
And so, uh, we're in the process now
of, and also what I'd say is really
cool about this story is that it
really passed from a woman led and ran.
Business to a woman led
and ran and owned business.
Yeah.
Yeah.
So all of them, Jen's got
ownership in the company.
Addie's got ownership in the company.
We've got ownership in the company
and we have a few really close friends
that help helped us lift this and, and
get it off the ground that supported
us and that owned the company as well.
Chris Arrington: Well, I'm glad y'all
have it 'cause those are some good pies.
Yeah.
If you haven't, you had one
of their pies, you need to go.
Yeah, yeah.
Charlie Perdue: And be careful.
'cause they are calorie rich.
They're, there's no pulling
punches on these pies.
Chris Arrington: No, you
don't go eat that pie.
'cause you're on a diet.
You go 'cause I wanna have fun.
Yeah.
Charlie Perdue: You
Chris Arrington: wanna indulge.
Charlie Perdue: Yeah.
And it is, is, it is.
We're grateful for it.
We're grateful for our customers and,
and for the people that work with us.
So it's been a blessing.
Chris Arrington: Charlie,
this has been fun.
Anyth any other words of, of advice for.
Our listeners on real estate
pies raising three kids.
Charlie Perdue: I, I would say,
I would say, uh, uh, I'd say
the Lord, I, I, I'd say Jesus.
I mean, that's, that's what I'd say.
Yeah.
Yeah.
If you don't have a faith, get one.
Yeah.
And, and I hope it's Jesus, I
hope it's God and his son and,
and the sacrifice he made.
Yeah.
Chris Arrington: God is good.
Charlie Perdue: Yeah.
Chris Arrington: All the time.
Yep.
And all the time.
God is good.
Chase Arrington: Yeah.
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